Friday, December 26, 2008

Battle of the Quotes

So it seems that the Pope is quite the subject of debate today.

Dave posted this quote from Pope Benedict XVI:
"If people look only to their own interests, our world would certainly fall apart."
And followed it with an Amen, which in my mind is only stating that he agrees with this quote.

Then FGO responds with his own version:
"If people would look out for their own interests. The world would be a better place."
The next round in this quote debate was from Sinister where he says they are both wrong.

Personally, I agree with the Pope and Dave.

I think Sinister is mistakenly taking Benedict's quote to mean that he is getting into people's personal business. I don't see it that way. I look at it to say that when people ONLY care about THEMSELVES that it is not good for society. I wholeheartedly agree.

Unfortunately, there are too many people out there that DON'T care about anyone but themselves.

I don't know what FGO is trying to get at with his whole the world would be a better place if people would mind their own business but that totally contradicts the teachings of Christ, whom he claims to follow.

So later in the day Brad joins the fray, quoting scripture that refutes the idea of FGO's quote.

He furthers discusses his thoughts on Sinister's position.

I have to agree with Brad here as well in what I think he was saying in regards to Sinister's position. What I think he is saying is that it seems Sinister is being a little biased in his attitude toward the Pope because the Pope is not pro-homosexual. He later comments on Brad's blog that "bad people can say good things..." and quotes Stalin by stating that he said "the writer is the engineer of the human soul."

So while I don't think Sinister was trying to compare the head of the Roman Catholic Church to one of the worst leaders in our world's history, I am not sure what the quote from Stalin has to do with the quote from Benedict. I thought at first he was just trying to make a point that a bad person like Stalin could say something good however this quote was, in my opinion, a bad example. This quote is not some great quote in world history...not to me anyway.

My point being, I think Sinister's gay agenda, which I am not meaning to disrespect, is clouding his vision in the big picture.

The point is, there are too many people in the world that care about nobody but themselves and that is one of the biggest problems with society today and the Pope was simply trying to point out that if more people would care about the needs of others, the world would be a better place.

So while I personally am not of the Roman Catholic faith, I certainly respect the man that is looked up to by the majority of the Christian world and in this case absolutely agrees with what he had to say in this respect.


  1. I don't have a "gay agenda." It's not an "agenda" to demand equal rights. You know better than that.

    The quote from Stalin was used to illustrate that bad people, like the Pope, can say good things.

    Did I just say that the Pope is a bad person? I did.

    Ratzinger was a member of the Hitler Youth when he was a kid. Don't give me the whole "he didn't have a choice" song and dance. It didn't work for the soldiers at Nuremberg; it shouldn't work for the Pope.

    Beyond that, he has perpetuated, if not made worse, the Catholic Church's ultra-conservative, homophobic, sexist, political agenda. You can't compare homosexuality to rainforest depletion and expect me to grant you any kind of respect. You can't take an absolutist stand against reproductive freedom and expect me to respect that viewpoint.

    Beyond that, really, how profound was the Pope's quote? "It's good to think about people other than yourself?" Did we need the Pope to tell us that?

  2. No Sinister we did not need the Pope to tell us that it is good to think about other people.

    I think Dave was just posting that quote to remind us. It wasn't that profound but honestly how many people believe it?

    And I know it's not some "gay agenda" to demand equal rights for people that are looked down upon in this country as inferior people. I do. It just seems that your passion for that particular (for lack of a better term) is clouding your judgment in respect to other things.

    I am not saying that everything Benedict says is 100% infallible or anything but his views represent hundreds and hundreds of years of "ultra-conservative" thinking. I know it is hard but you can't really expect the Roman Catholic Church to change its position completely overnight. It is going to take some time. But you are right, he probably is homophobic. He obviously believes that according to his religion, homosexuality is 100% absolutely, without a doubt, a sin and until he or whoever becomes the head of the Church after him or after him, or whenever, the Roman Catholic Church as a whole is compelled to follow him.

    Anyway, my point is (and I think maybe Dave's too) was that perhaps we as people need to be reminded that we should NOT be thinking of just ourselves and the more selfish we become the more society will continue to break down.

  3. The idea, "Think about others," while noble, is a truism, no matter who says it, and honestly, it's kind of like the golden rule - it should go without saying.

    If the person saying it, however, has a history of connecting "Think about others" with actions that lead to an increase in mistrust and violence against the "other," and a global legitimization of discrimination against the "other," then I'm going to have a problem with that.

    Tell me, how would criticizing the Pope for being a homophobic shit demonstrate "clouded" judgment on this or any issue?

  4. It would demonstrate clouded judgment in the same way it would apply to anyone that you disagree with on one particular issue and therefor attack everything that person says.

    For instance, I don't agree with you on every single issue, but I don't necessarily criticize EVERYTHING you say that I do disagree with (or at least I hope I haven't).

    Personally, like I said, I might not agree with the things the Pope has done in the past but I willing to put that behind me for the greater good.

    Forgiving a person for their past misdeeds is a great step in the right direction in the pursuit of that greater good.

  5. This is something that I have wanted to respond to, but haven't had time. Quickly I will say that I think Steve (aka Otter) and Brad have hit the nail on the head. I'll respond more in-depth later.